Everything Everywhere - Latest Comments in Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Michael Tyson — Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:42:11 -0000

Wow, this topic has caused quite a stir! Might as well put my 2 cents in :)

My partner and I have been on the road for 1 year now - we're travelling and working in a motorhome in Europe. For the first half of our trip we didn't use a guidebook - just online research. For the second half of our trip we've used a mixture of the two. So, there are a couple of points I'd like to put out there:

First of all I don't think this is an either/or debate - we've found using a bit of both is the way to go as they're good for different things. Guidebooks are great for getting a general overview but when I want detailed and up-to-date information about a specific place or activity I'll go online.

Naturally, we've also found both have drawbacks. We use Lonely Planet and have often found their descriptions of a place descend into gushing hyperbole! They do seem to be a very excitable bunch! The problem I've found with using online sources? All tourists seem to go to the same place, do the same thing, and take the same photos. if you're going to use your every-day tourist as your only source of travel information you're going to have a lot of information on very few places. Be prepared to wade through a bazillion journal entries on the Colosseum, the Sistine Chapel and The Forum if you're looking for something to do in Rome! Of course, Lonely Planet doesn't cover all possible places or activities - how could it!? - but as someone who's spent months in the one country whilst travelling and had more things on the to do list than I could get around to I think it's safe to say it's fairly comprehensive!

One last point and then I'm done :) To talk about all guide books as if they're made equal is oversimplifying it a bit, I think. If you don't like Lonely Planet maybe you'll like Rick Steves! They each have a different focus and are good for different situations and different people. For example Rick Steves is brilliant for short trips but absolutely rubbish for those of us staying in one country for months at a time.

Ok I lied - one last point! We have about a dozen guide books because our trip is so extended and they don't weigh a thing - it's a little thing called the iPhone :)

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Mariellen — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:08:10 -0000

There's another reason to be wary of guidebooks -- terrorists may be reading them. When I was in India this winter, I read an editorial in the Times of India, written after the Pune German Bakery bomb blast, which suggested that terrorists were reading Lonely Planet and targeting sites based on their recommendations (e.g. Leopold's in Mumbai). They want to hit foreigners and draw international attention. Yikes.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Matt | YearAroundTheWorld — Wed, 05 May 2010 20:39:26 -0000

I could care less about how well travel facts are written. Professional writers should stick to actual travel stories if they want to show off their craft, not travel guidebooks.

Guidebooks are about facts, average people don't care how well it's written. It could be the best written guidebook in the world, but if the information is a year old, it's worthless to me. Cheap, timely facts from the internet are better than expensive fluff from someone with an English degree (in my opinion).

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Rebeccius — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:57:08 -0000

Great article. Although I am still in the planning stages, and can't really comment one way or the other as far as the practical "on the road" validity of your stance.....I have to say that I have found myself referring to online sources 95% of the time (over travel guides picked up from the local library) when researching various places.

I think the hard copy guides are particularly limited when it comes to accommodation, restaurants, and transportation....probably the three main concerns for a traveler!

I do think that the Lonely Planet mini-sized phrasebooks are great however, and well worth packing around.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

John — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:51:08 -0000

To be honest I've never traveled anywhere outside of North America without a guidebook. I've used Let's Go for Eastern Europe and Mexico, Lonely Planet for Korea, Fodor's for Japan (big mistake, I only bought it because it was cheaper than the alternatives) and some independently published guide that I picked up at a used book store in Budapest for Tunisia (again, big mistake). I agree that you don't actually need them but I kind of like having them for a couple of reasons. Most importantly, they tend to have handy maps that highlight the main sights and transportation infrastructure. It's certainly true that that information is almost always available online but it's nice to have it in your pocket in case you can't find an internet cafe. Nevertheless, you're absolutely right that they're not really necessary and if you wind up with a bad guidebook, as I did in Japan and Tunisia, it can really mess up your trip.

Nice blog, by the way, I'm really enjoying it.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

edi n — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 01:36:16 -0000

I agree, with you Gary, pooling of many people would show the actual quality. Don't believe only from one source.
Nice blog! I like it.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Matthew Teller — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:37:31 -0000

Fair enough. You're absolutely right - an expert can't tell you what you like.

You have a perfect right to say what you do or don't like - but then the expert can tell you whether what you like is good or bad compared to everything else available. That's the key skill professionals have - wine writers & travel journalists alike.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Gary — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:27:42 -0000

You don't need to be an expert to know if you had a good time or if a room was clean.

Bob: "did you like your hotel?"
Sam: "I don't know. I haven't visited enough hotels to be able to voice an opinion".

That is absurd. Anyone can know if a room was clean, if the service was good or if the amenities were as advertised. You don't have to sleep in hundreds of rooms to have an opinion on what you experienced.

All your examples have nothing do do with travel. Travel isn't the macroeconomy. It is travel. You don't need a PhD in travel to stay in a hotel room. Furthermore, there were a whole lot of "experts" in economics who had absolutely no clue what was happening to the economy over the last few years. Their expertise consisted of nothing more than regurgitating conventional wisdom.

As for wine, I'd point you to Gary Vaynerchuk. You like what you like. You pallet is your own and an "expert" can't tell you what you like.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Matthew Teller — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:18:21 -0000

Any professional travel journalist - and, I'd say, the huge majority of professional guidebook writers too - would be able to put together a more meaningful, informative, sharp, clear and useful review of any single hotel on their patch without having to spend a night in it than a regular punter who stayed there for a week and wrote about it on TripAdvisor.

It stands to reason. I drink maybe one glass of wine a month. Give me a bottle of wine and I could describe it, sure, in my own terms - but it's just the opinion of Mr Joe Schmo who barely knows anything about what to look for in a wine, or what's important, or what the background context of that bottle is, etc etc. Give the same wine to someone who samples wine professionally, and they could not only understand more about what it is and where it came from, but would be able to communicate more about it as well.

Professional travel journalists - and most decent guidebook writers - stay in dozens, perhaps hundreds of hotels a year. Joe Schmo stays in, what, three? Five?

Anyone can invest in the stock market, but not everyone can offer a meaningful opinion about the macroeconomic climate. It takes a professional to do that. Anyone can watch a football game, but it takes a professional to be able to write intelligently and meaningfully about the action, the result and the consequences. Anyone can watch Barack Obama on CNN giving a press conference at the White House and then offer an opinion about what they think it all meant - but, well, you get the point.

Anyone can stay in a hotel, but there's a big difference between professional opinion and the rest.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Gary — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 07:29:44 -0000

You make a blanket claim that ALL guidbeook authors are authorities and experts. That is not not true. Most I've met in the field were college students or other part time people who were sent to gather data, usually in the form of the very brochures you criticize.

There is noting wrong with the average person saying what their experience was at a hotel. It was what it was. As I noted, guidebook authors do not say at every hotel. At least in TripAdvisor people are actually staying in the hotel, where is for a guidebook they are just getting information about the hotel without staying there. Who is really the expert when they haven't even experienced what they are writing about?

What good is being an expert if the medium in which you convey your expertise is prone to being out of date??

You seem to take the view that expert = good, everyone else = bad, and that everyone associated with a guidebook is an expert. They're not. Reality is far from what you are describing.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Matthew Teller — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 02:53:05 -0000

Tragically misinformed and misleading post, I'm afraid. Guidebooks matter because they are written by professional travel journalists who know their industry, know their market and know how to write. Good writers do a heck of a lot more than just pick up brochures, as you claim! They are specialists in their area, and know far more than any amount of ordinary travellers posting and blogging...

By contrast 99% of online travel info doesn't matter because it's written by Joe Schmo. 100,000 Joe Schmoes don't make TripAdvisor reliable; in fact, the opposite. As for Hostelworld, it is hopelessly misleading and unreliable.

So the Moon South Pacific guidebook you talk about lists a defunct airline. Big deal. If the author is a leading authority on the area then his information (where it matters) will be streets ahead of Wiki or anything else, regardless of whether he's eaten in every restaurant or not. (Of COURSE he hasn't; duh!)

The trouble, I think, is that lots of people (maybe you too) take guidebooks as gospel truth. They are not - they are GUIDE books. They are meant to give you some pointers to help get below the surface. They are written by travel professionals and people who make a living as communicators. I would ALWAYS take the opinion of a professional guidebook writer over a commercial travel site.

Buy a guidebook, take it with you, read it inside out, then leave it in your hotel room while you go out.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Jonathan Bruck — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 17:47:44 -0000

Be careful, sites like Hostelworld can be gamed. Hostel operators can create accounts, book books stays at their own hostels, and give themselves glowing ratings.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Croatia Travel — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:56:18 -0000

Good post there..
I can say that when I'm traveling, and I'm traveling a lot, I never use only one source for information about the place.
I'm always looking on 5-10 different trusted guides and creating my own opinion..

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Hostels Valencia — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:21:24 -0000

i agree with you Gary, the only problem that i see is when you are going to undeveloped countries, the only one who gives an accurate info is Lonely Planet, Bradt or Rough Guides

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

paupalau — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:53:15 -0000

Totally agree with you.
If you are travelling, you better ask other travellers or check the web for the latest news.
If you are on holidays and want it all easy, just carry your overweighted guidebook with you, follow its instructions to the end and forget about having any adventure.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

paupalau — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:48:29 -0000

That's a good post!!
I totally agree with your point of view.
Guidebooks make us focuse on certain places only and at the end you find yourself surrounded by more tourists than locals. I've spent a year travelling around Asia and felt ridiculous carrying my guidebook.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Phil Stewart — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:05:00 -0000

Although I mostly agree with your points, I still travel with guidebooks, because I feel like for the type of travel I usually do, they still make sense for me.

I could see two types of trips where I wouldn't need/want a guidebook:

- a carefully scheduled and planned itinerary, with a finite amount of time. This is the sort of trip I do for work, and I rarely bring guidebooks on these trips. Because I'm not making decisions on the fly (aside from maybe where to eat) I can sit down with the computer and plan it out, pulling resources from various places together as needed.

- a long, unstructured trip with few time limits. If one can manage it, this is the ideal way to travel. You basically just go wherever fate leads you, and if it turns out to be lame, you just go somewhere else the next day. One could really do this sort of trip without either guidebook or any other resource, though some degree of homework would be helpful to give you an idea what to look for.

However, I generally fall somewhere in the middle when I travel for pleasure: trips of limited length, but little up front planning besides where I'm flying into. Time is sufficiently of the essence that a wasted day is a significant loss. Internet access is not always convenient once you're actually on the ground some place, so a guidebook gives you the ability to direct your trip on the fly, without having to seek out an internet cafe in a strange city, time I'd much rather spend doing something else. There's something to be said for a ready-made packet of information on your chosen country, even if it is an imperfect one. It also gives you an easy way to research your situation on buses, flights, or the middle of the desert.

Guidebooks aren't perfect, and overly slavish reliance on them probably doesn't make for the best travel, but I think they're still valuable.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

shophola — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:15:51 -0000

I agree I book my vaction (hotels/rental cars etc) online. I also get mapquest directions and"guidebook" type info online as well. Great article

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Split apartments — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:01:41 -0000

I personally think if you spend a little time in the internet looking at blogs and forums and other discussion board will give you ample information. II believe guidebooks is only a individual point of view about his likes and dislikes and it may not cater to a general public.
Google is your best friend :)

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

female nudity — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 06:16:02 -0000

Thanks,very interesting and useful post

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Dobbs — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:50:33 -0000

Here is a comment for the travel writers reading this.

I really believe travel writers instead of trying to disparage new media it should be embracing technology like the Kindle. It is important to remember that the Kindle will not put guidebook writers out of a job. The facts of the matter is that due to the nature of paper guidebooks, they are often out of date and impossible to update without reprinting an entire book.

On the Kindle any updates of the books can be done instantly because of the digital format of the book. Theoretically no travel guidebook should be out of date when someone purchases it on the Kindle if the guidebook company is continuously updating their digital copy of the book.

I fail to see how this new media is a threat to travel writers. This new media will in fact allow you to provide more up to date content to readers for cheaper prices. I have written more about this on my site, but I would like to hear travel writers' opinions on the Kindle.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

workrobot — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:15:16 -0000

sorry Gary, one final thing here. You said:

getting information online is better, cheaper, and more convenient than what you will find in a book.

If this were true, guidebook publishers would not spend the time and money sending researchers to physically visit places. They'd just have teams of people scouring the web.

And BTW, the only research on Colombia that Thomas Kohnstamm did was the research for the history section. You should know that. He didn't actually need to be there. All the rest is media hype.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

workrobot — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 13:28:37 -0000

1) Gary - my name is Richard Arghiris.

2) I'm not suggesting I'm more authoratative than you, only more authoratative than most people who post hotel reviews on websites. I've visited thousands of hotels and restaurants during my career and I've also read tons of books on my subject. I have also been travelling most of my life, for the record. So, I have training and experience.

3) Apologies for the getting lost comment. I put a lot of love and hard work into my writing and I feel slightly insulted when you suggest that we guidebook writers simply knock together our listings from telephone books and other random sources. I take the time to visit all the hotels, check the rooms, prices and services, and also talk to the owners. I also make a lot of enquiries to get the best restaurants and tour operators too, which I also visit in person. I accept that there are bad guidebook writers who do a bad job with this, but many of us also take our work seriously.

I'm glad you do not have your head buried in a guidebook. People shouldn't take guidebooks as gospel, but use them as inspiration and a tool to aid independent explorations. I'd hate to think people were following them to the letter - which I know some people do, particularly a certain kind of LP reader.

Also for the record, I am not 'old guard'. I've done a lot of work with new media but I think you're deluded if you believe the electronic format is somehow going to supersede the paper guidebook. This is because technology fails - particularly with the robust lifestyle of travellers - and shiny gadgets attract the eyes of thieves. A book is solid and dependable. And usually written by people who know how to write.

One final thing, if I was interested in money, I'd be doing something else. I do this job only because I love it - because I love writing and I love travelling. I don't care if people do or don't spend money on guidebooks. I don't make any profit from in any case. The only thing I want is for people to be inspired, informed and connected to the countries they visit. There's nothing worse than a traveller who doesn't appreciate the cultures and people of the land they're in. For that reason, I want to share my experience, love and knowledge.

Cheers.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

Gary Arndt — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 01:53:12 -0000

1) if you are truly authoritative, leave your name.

2) Why are you more authoritative than me? Because someone pays you? I've been traveling almost 2 years.

3) I've never gotten lost. I have my head up and not buried in a guidebook.

Just like the recording industry, TV, newspapers, I don't expect the old guard to go down without a fight. People with a vested monetary interest in getting everyone to spend money on guidebooks will always make these claims.

Re: Step Away From the Lonely Planet: A Requiem for Travel Guidebooks

workrobot — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 00:01:08 -0000

Interesting discussion. I write guidebooks for a living and I'm very passionate about the places I write about. I think you are doing a disservice to people like me who work hard to bring you decent and authoratative writing. The internet is full of garbage written by people who don't know good from bad, let alone how to write. Like any other guidebook author, I've seen thousands of hotels and restaurants in my time and I know the difference. And if you think Wikipedia is an authorative source of history and culture then you're sadly mistaken. I think this try-hard snobbery and nothing else. Don't cry when you get lost!